Spotlight: Madeline Walden, Social Media Manager at Aquarium of the Pacific

You’re listening to the Marketing Attractions podcast. Conversations on how nonprofit attractions are increasing attendance and sharing their missions through marketing. Your hosts are Ryan Dick and Jenny Williams of Attended Media. – Jenny, today we’ve got a spotlight episode and you know what, I’m really excited about this one because we’re gonna be talking to somebody who does a podcast. – Like, can you do your spirits? – It’s the new marketing channel for cultural attractions. So happy to get into this. – Yes, yes, yes, yes. Super excited to be sharing notes. So we’ve got Madeline Walden. She is the social media manager at Aquarium of the Pacific Madeline. Welcome to the podcast. – Hello, thanks so much for having me. I’m so excited. – Yes, like I already said, I’m very excited as well. All right, so tell us your journey. How did you get into the cultural attraction space? – Yeah, so really, I have a full marketing background social media specifically just being chronically online my entire life and growing up at Long Beach, the Aquarium of the Pacific has always been such a highlight of my childhood. And so before I started working at the Aquarium, I was commuting from Long Beach to down 10 LA every day and just, you know, not enjoying that side of life. And got the job here in 2018 when they were hiring, sorry, 2016, when they were hiring for a social media specific role at the time for the first time. And I’ve been here ever since. It’s been nine and a half years. It’s been wonderful. I think it’s really cool that the Aquarium invested in a social specific role so early. And prior to that, my manager needs a, she had been managing and created all of our social media accounts from the get-go. So it’s been awesome to kind of take her lead and run with everything in all the different directions that we go on social, including podcasting. Mm-hmm. Well, tell us about a little bit more about the day and the life in your role. So you’re coming in as the first person for social media. Does that mean you’re stepping into a small team overall or you just have all these people that you’re a bank and go on waiting to help you out? And nonprofit life. So we do have a pretty large marketing team here at the Aquarium, but our social media team specifically is just myself in, like I said, my manager in ETSA. So her and I run our entire social media presence. It’s an audience growing over a 3.5 million people, 3.5 million followers, which is really wonderful. I love our audience. And yeah, so day to day, it’s a lot, it’s always different. It’s always different, I’m sure everybody says that, but it really is. I could be in the sea line habitat one day and running around with, you know, paying one poop all over my shoes the next and then the next day just plugged into my desk and, you know, just full, you know, Facebook met a business suite at the fourth with our wonderful followers all day. So it’s really different from day to day, but I have a lot of fun in my role. It’s really, really a blast. And so I’m doing full time, content creation for our channels, hosting livestreams, hosting our podcast, aquarium of the pod-sific and managing our entire social media presence. – I have a few questions about your role in general here. So I think a lot of people that we talk to are in this role or similar roles are, or maybe just in the marketing team in general, or when we think about getting content, it’s, which is as conversation with someone, it’s like interviewing your experts, which I think we’re gonna talk about a little bit when we get more into the podcast, but are you the person who’s wearing that hat and going around and talking to you the staff, whether it’s on animal care, guest service, like is that your role, or are you kinda split and divide that across the marketing team? – Yeah, I’m kind of that in between, I guess, between the marketing department and our other teams across the aquarium, which I really enjoy that role. I learn so much from my colleagues, and especially in our husband, or your department, who oversee all the animal care at the aquarium. So those are kind of usually the main focus of our social media videos and those interviews of getting to know like what happens in animal care and what does the day to day of that look like. And so yeah, I’m the one having those conversations mostly. – And then how about, so with three and a half million followers, you’re across assuming pretty much every single social platform, what’s been kind of a standout lately for you or what a channel you find specifically impactful for aquarium of the Pacific? – Yeah, the majority of our audiences on TikTok, that’s 2.8 million, and we really, that’s our newest platform. I guess I shouldn’t say newest blue sky, it’s technically our newest, but TikTok, the growth on there was unlike any other, I feel like many other institutions feel the same way. We started there in January 2020, and then the world fell apart, and we were there providing cute animal videos and showing people all of the amazing work that the aquarium was still doing, despite being closed to the public. And it really just grew our audience monumentally. Like I think by the end of the year, we had a million followers, and that was more than anywhere else we had ever been. So it’s a lot of fun on there. Obviously, ties are changing, and like our growth there has kind of been a little stagnant since probably the past year or so, but still a really fun place to create. The audience is really engaging and positive, and we have a lot of fun on our live streams over there too. – How about any like standout content that you’ve been able to work on our creators or something that sticks out in mind? That was very successful. – Yeah, anything with our sea lions tends to be very impactful, and I can’t help but feel it’s because they’re my favorite animal. But they’re just so engaging and so charismatic, and I think people really enjoy seeing the care that goes into a 600 pound sea lion, and the fact that we are hand feeding it every single day, and they have these amazing personalities. I think it’s just very, very exciting for our audience to see those connections that our staff and the animals have. – So a little bit of an unfair advantage because you’ve got sea lions, right? – But our audience kind of goes beyond just animal based institutions, like for maybe a botanical garden or a history museum. I mean, those numbers that you’re talking about, and especially being on TikTok, those are like mind blowing for some of the other, kind of in the cultural attraction space, how did you do it? I mean, you’ve got the sea lion advantage, you talked about kind of launching during COVID, but could you, this question is coming from, there are some smaller, once again, botanical gardens or museums that don’t even really have a TikTok presence whatsoever. Could you kind of give them a TikTok 101? – Yeah, of course. I think number one, edgy entertainment on there goes so far, and so I see amazing botanical gardens or other institutions, even places that have a much more serious, or maybe even somber message, a lot of nonprofits, you know, focus in different spaces. Getting, creating content that is not only engaging, but educating is taking us really, really far across our entire social media presence. So we’re able to have fun a little bit, you know, with our animals, a little bit of humor in our videos, but really we’re tricking you into learning something, and that’s always the goal with everything that we post. There might be some fluff here in there, who might follow a trend as well. Those trends always help boost a little bit of engagement, you know, like we can play along too, but really they’re meant to hook you and get you to care about all of the amazing work that the aquarium does and as a part of our mission. So I think lead with your, you know, lead with what you wanna teach people and lead with what, you know, you would find, and you would find valuable as, you know, an outsider to your institution, and just create content around that, and your audience will find you. We’ve had a lot of fun basically just teaching, and like I said, tricking people into learning something. Okay, I’m writing that down. Trick people. – Trick people. – No, no, no, no, no. – Okay. – Create another Pacific, trick people into it. – We’ll edit that out. But actually, we’re gonna roll that. – It’s my whole job. – And just kind of curious, are you doing any type of, you know, with those type of numbers, are you doing any just kind of, here like promotional type of messaging? Like, hey, we’ve got this great event coming up, or is it always that edgy, jame, type of feel? Because our audience has kind of grown to a global status at this point, we don’t spend, especially on TikTok, we don’t spend a lot of time on content that is visit specific. That’s really for more, more for other platforms, and we’re reaching a more local audience. But it’s cool because we’re reaching people who, you know, are in Australia and are having us to their future travel bucket list, which is really, really fun. But when it comes to like more overarching things, like we have this amazing event called Night Dive, it’s adults only, we have about eight, six to eight events a year. And I love focusing and highlighting that event ’cause it’s really, really fun, it’s after hours, and there’s DJs, there’s live music, it’s just a really fun way to see the aquarium. And I think that kind of just performs well across the board for us, but there’s a lot of amazing events that we have that we share on a pretty often basis ’cause it all goes back to support your mission and get people here to learn about the animals, and maybe something alongside of it, do you like me a Santa breakfast coming up? So there’s something for everybody. – I’m gonna push you on this just a little bit more here because I’m a little bit more of that ROI, like what are we doing this for? So is there any type of measurement, and I get it, the mission is the mission, and it’s always about the mission, right? But how would you, if you do that, like how do you consider like success? Is it just purely like follower size, engagement? Like what are your KPI’s? You say, hey, that was a really good win for us. – Yeah, I’m really lucky at my role. We’re not so analytic forward. I hate to bring it back to, it’s really just a vibe, and I’m lucky my management understands it and sees that as well. We measure success by, what is the impact of this post and are we hearing about it in external conversations? Are we hearing about it from staff onsite? Did this perform across platforms in different ways? Really, yeah, that’s my biggest, my biggest goal is to insight onsite conversations where people are coming up to my coworkers because they recognize them from a TikTok video or, oh my gosh, you taught me that sea lions have black teeth and it’s okay that they have black teeth because the bacteria build up and they’re supposed to have that, it helps protect their teeth. So those kind of, in real life, conversions, it’s hard to track specifically that this video make you buy a ticket. But if you show up onsite and you’re talking to my coworkers about a video that you saw at our TikTok channel or anywhere else online, then I think that’s a success. So really creating those in real life conversations is my number one goal. But yeah, I mean, we know if a video performs or doesn’t perform the way we want it to and nothing’s a failure, we will look at it and say, okay, what can we do different next time? The message is always gonna be important so how can we shift it in certain ways? And yeah, we go from there and see what’ll work next time. – And then going back to kind of the team structure. So for someone listening who maybe doesn’t have a dedicated social media manager, like how much content are you actually putting out on a weekly basis? Do you have a, hey, we’re posting every single day on every channel or do you have kind of a minimum benchmark in terms of what you’re trying to hit in content? – I wish we could post daily, at one point we were posting daily or posting five, at least five times a week. My goal really is three to five times a week at this point. We’re in the middle of a podcast season right now, so that’s a little bit lower just based on my workload and bandwidth. But that’s always my goal, does it always happen? No. I feel very lucky that we have this library of amazing content that we are utilizing for reposts and just kind of being able to rely on some really great content that we’ve created in the past that our audience still responds to. So that’s helpful during our podcast season where I just have less time. – We’re gonna keep peppering you with questions ’cause you’re doing great here. – Okay. (laughs) – Is there kind of a formula that you find works better on TikTok compared to Instagram? Do you keep it light and fluffy on one platform and everybody gets the same? What’s kind of your outlook on that? – Yeah, it’s relatively the same content across platforms. If I have the time, then it’s repurposed in different ways. But really, I think what it is is it’s a lot of transparency into animal care and seeing us out of the aquarium that you wouldn’t normally see just as a visitor. That’s really valuable to me. So you’re seeing a sea lion or a sea-alganese teeth brush where you’re seeing an autorgate, it’s annual exam or a penguin being scanned by a metal detector to make sure he isn’t swallowed anything that he shouldn’t be. So there’s these kind of glimpses into all of the amazing work that the aquarium does in front of guests and also behind the scenes. That performs really, really well for us and I think just allows this connection to go even further as an animal care facility. That work is so important to us. Those are main priority and getting to show off the amazing care that the animals receive is just, it’s easy to do because they’re already doing it. So getting to show our audience what’s going on is it’s a privilege for me. (upbeat music) You’re listening to the Marketing Attractions podcast. Conversations on how nonprofit attractions are increasing attendance and sharing their mission through marketing. Your hosts are Ryan Dick and Jenny Williams of attend media. Attend media is a media planning and buying agency, specializing in zoos, aquariums, gardens and museums. For more information, please visit attend.media. Now back to Ryan and Jenny. – Hi, Malin. So let’s talk about this podcast thing you got going on. – Yeah, my baby. Tell us everything you know. – Okay, so aquarium of the Pod Civic is our podcast. I am a co-host with my Better Half-Airdrondi. Aaron is our conservation, I always forget her job title. Conservation Initiatives Manager, something like that. She’s very important here at the aquarium. She oversees a lot of the amazing conservation efforts we do with birds and mammals and amphibians, mostly actually, she’s a crazy frog lady. But she’s really an expert on everything that happens here at the aquarium. And I play the role and really am the audience surrogate. So I’m the non-expert. I’m in there saying like, wait, you’re going too scientific. Let’s bring it back a little bit. And really what this podcast came out of was these TikTok lives we were doing from 2021 to 2023 about where we were live streaming weekly in partnership with TikTok. And it would be myself behind the camera and we would have an animal expert on screen. A lot of the time it was Aaron because her and I just worked so well together. But we’ve streamed everything from our sea jellies to frogs, to sea lions, to any animal you can name at the aquarium. We’ve done specific live streams about. So we were reaching an audience that was relatively new for us. It was kind of like this, you know, 20 to 40 year old audience that we were maybe kind of missing in other areas of the aquarium where, you know, we reach families really well and we reach young children really well, but how are we educating adults that are plugs into the internet? And so that’s kind of where the success was with those TikTok lives. And so we kind of were talking about, okay, how can we continue these really great conversations we’re having on TikTok that feel a little disposable because there is a live stream and you kind of have to be there to tune in and maybe you’ll catch a replay but not really. And the podcast just felt like an easy place to go. And so we’re really having these long form conversations there which is really wonderful for me because I learned so much and the audience learned so much alongside me. But we’re able to talk about more in depth versus, you know, a 15 second video where postion TikTok talk about a really critical matter versus getting a real deep dive an hour long conversation with the person who oversees, you know, our conservation efforts at the aquarium, which I think is really valuable and our audience has responded really well to. – So this was born off of doing TikTok lives. And I guess that kind of answers the question like, why would an institution want to devote the time resources to do something like this is because you’re doing these kind of successful interviews, but as you just mentioned, they disappear, right? – Yeah, they kind of just don’t go anywhere. – Right, right, right. So what does a format, like a long reform format, like podcasting, be able to do for you guys? Like you kind of touched on it, but give us a little bit more there. – Yeah, once again, it’s really inciting these real world conversations where people who are already plugged into the work that the aquarium does are just getting a deeper dive on, it’s almost like the next step. Like we got you with the cutesy line video, so you tuned into a live stream and now you’re listening to a podcast about oil spills. Like it’s kind of like that trajectory. So we’re really getting you in there with all the amazing work that the aquarium is working on. And the value, like I said, yeah, is those in-re-life conversations and conversions of teaching people what all the amazing work that we do. – So our audience out there is going, okay, I’m digging with this girl, Sam. – Yes, an institution hasn’t already taken the dive and done a podcast, could you help them out? Like what would be some of your tips? How do people get started? What do you know? – Yeah. So we hit the ground running with 10 episodes and we released them in a season in 2023. We’re now in our fourth season and it’s a little more sporadic based on, you know, it’s not only myself recording and scheduling around, but also my colleague, Erin. And so based on, you know, her availability, it’s kind of flexible, but I will say it’s, it’s a lot of work to get the ground, to get it started ’cause you have to buy the equipment, find your setup, all of that stuff. But really once you start creating and putting podcasts out there, I haven’t found that if we need to take a little bit of a break, we lose an audience. A podcast is more of like a passive thing that you are not seeing in feed every single day. So it’s more something like if you subscribe to it and it pops up in your feed, oh, this is a treat, you know, versus like where is this next episode? I hope our audience is eager for the next episode, of course. – Me too. – But it’s not punishable, I guess, versus other platforms. If we don’t post for, you know, a month, if we haven’t posted a podcast for a month, those are very two different things. So it is low lift once you hit the ground running and my only thing is like, you’re never gonna run out of things to talk about. We can always revisit topics and things that we’ve already discussed in the past and just find new ways to talk about them or update the audience like our very first episode is about sea otters. We could do a different sea otter episode every single month because we’re always doing amazing work with sea otters. So there’s a lot of room for institutions to just kind of maintain these conversations and really look for these long form opportunities. Like I said, it’s low lift. It’s once you get it all set up and you have somewhere to record and you yourself are learning the, you know, whatever it’s in Riverside or you know, you’re editing in Premiere or audition. That side of things is a little bit of a little, a little bit of a lift, but once you got it, you got it. You’re already creating content for your social media platforms. It’s pretty much the same thing. – You’re speaking my love language here. Yeah, absolutely. 10 episodes to get started, right? Like that feels like the bare minimum and you know, the first step is always the hardest step, right? – Totally. – If you can do 10, then you can do 50. Is that up in the words in your heart? – I think so. No, I think so. And really it’s just about believing in yourself too. Like I was really dreading editing that first episode. We actually re-recorded our first episode because Aaron and I went into that first episode with a colleague that we get along really well with and we’re like, this is just gonna be like the TikTok lives. We’re not gonna set any parameters where I have no outline. And then we quickly realize like, oh, this is different. It’s different if you don’t have an animal engaging the audience right in front of you. So I was like, this is not good. We can’t release this. We have to go back. And we’ve had to re-record a couple where we just didn’t feel like we had it, you know, had our groove. But now we have it and now we’re locked into it. And you know, we could go a couple weeks without recording and kind of just hop back into it really quickly. Are we’ve been complemented by our staff? Because, you know, we work with animal people. A lot of people don’t realize the like coolness factor of the work that they do. And coming into a room with your colleagues and, you know, in a safe place, you’re not being livestreamed. You’re not being, we don’t do video for our podcast yet. But it’s really just like an open conversation where they know like, oh, if I flood the line, I can go back. I know it’s not gonna come in the episode. It’s a safe space for them to really talk about all of the amazing work that they do here and feel like it’s gonna be, it’s gonna make them look good and it’s gonna make, you know, the work that they do reach a wider audience. So it’s really fun. I really love doing it. So I can hear some of the challenges in perhaps our audience’s heads like, okay, how do I get the frog person to create compelling content? Or how do I get the botanist to talk about the seed? You know, like, do you have any tips? You know, okay, we’ve got the setup, we’ve done 10 up, or, you know, we’re gonna do this. You are the host, you’ve got to extract this kind of cool information that lives in your subject matter, experts heads. But you also have to create some compelling content where nobody’s gonna listen. You have any like journalistic or interview tips that you can share? – Yeah, so we, ahead of time, will outline the episode and we ask all of our guests to come into the episode with just a story, whether it be with their animal specifically, or a story they love telling you about their animal career, or just their career in general, really, or connection they have with an animal, et cetera. And so we kind of go through that. We talk about their background. We talk about what brought them to the aquarium, how long they worked here, what their trajectory at the aquarium has been, and then we kind of get into the meat of the episode going back and forth. It just becomes very conversational right away. I think just as someone who has done these TikTok live streams, I’ve just learned how to keep the conversation rolling, and I would just practice that. It just, all my conversations, but if you’re watching this and you’re wondering like how I could do that, just literally, it’s just about being a social butterfly sometimes and just kind of popping into people’s offices. What are you working on? And just training yourself to just keep the conversation moving. But really, I’m very lucky because I have a co-host who can help fill the gaps when I’m falling behind, or we’re troubleshooting with our technology. And then we also take audience questions for every single episode too, so those kind of help fill the space. We post about them on social media the day that we’re recording, so it feels very timely, and we collect those via Instagram stories. That’s a really fun way for the audience to be engaged in the content as well as just keep that conversation fully, that always have a list of things like, okay, well, anyways, let’s get back to it and it just helps keep things rolling. – The podcast pro here, I mean, I couldn’t have said in any better. And going back to that first episode, how about just listening to your voice and editing as well? – That was rough at first. – Sound like that? – Yeah, that was rough at first. I was really dreading the edit, and then you just get over it, and you’re like, this is a really valuable conversation. And my colleagues are just so brilliant and so well spoken, that it makes it easy to really sit back and let them take the lead. I haven’t felt the need to really have to hop in and keep the conversation rolling, but it’s free to have those audience questions just in case. – Okay, so you got your first season done, it’s in the can, if you will, talk to me about promotion. I mean, you’ve taken that big first step. Now you want somebody to listen to it. What are some of the things that work for you all? – We’ve played around with it a lot because it’s never something we’ve marketed before. It’s never something I’ve marketed before. And so really what, we had like, you know, the little graphics with little tinker going up and down with our voices, you know, whatever that thing’s called. And that’s not very engaging for our social media audiences. So really we are now leaning on videos of the animals we’re talking about or around the subject that we’re talking about and putting voiceover really great clip from the episode over some really beautiful B-roll that we have. And that’s performing really well in its own. So it’s kind of getting, you know, checkmark in my contact creation box and checkmark in my podcast box because we’re reaching an audience already with our content no matter what. And then, oh, this is actually tied to a podcast episode. I might want to learn more about this. And yeah, it’s going really well. It’s definitely still new for us and we’re still trying out things. We haven’t played around with a lot of like paid advertising around the podcast quite yet. But it’s doing really well in its own so far. I would love to see you in, you know, our audience grow and continue there. I think partnering with more third parties like we in our first season, we partnered with OctoNation on an episode whose the world’s largest Octopus fan club on an episode surprised about Octopuses. And so that performed really well because we had buy in from another audience on top of ours. So things like that, I think, really help promote and get our podcast out there like to do that more. – Yeah, that like the cross promotion, that totally makes sense. Okay, so let’s scare our audience out of this. Like, and be real, like how much time, how big is the lift, especially like getting going in those first couple episodes? – It’s really not that bad. I am very critical of the content that we put out there. So I will listen to an episode probably three or four times before it goes out. I’m the one editing it, making sure that, you know, we’re removing all the little us and, and, and, and likes and all of that. And, you know, it doesn’t, we don’t sound like robots, but I just wanna make sure that we’re getting the information clearly out there. So I’m very critical of that side of it. If you are more disciplined in your conversation and you’re recording in a way where, you know, you wanna help yourself out at the end of the day, I’m still not good at that. I’m, I’m very still conversational in, in the room, and then we’ll go back and make the edits after the fact. So it really depends on how disciplined you are. But I think that it’s, it’s up to you of how much time you wanna dedicate to it. If you wanna do, you know, 15 minute episodes, you wanna do an hour and a half long episodes. If you wanna script everything out, or if you wanted to just be conversational, ours is working really well, it’s conversational. We have a slight outline, like I said, but nothing scripted. And it’s, it’s a low lift, like I said. It’s, it’s something that, I get a lot of joy out of doing too, so it feels very fulfilling. If you want me to put an hour number on it, I’d say, yeah, probably like, you know, four to five hours in episode of work, maybe more, maybe less depending on what it is, but yeah, it’s doable, it’s totally doable. – Any final words before we move off of the podcast stuff, I can talk about this for another hour, but. – Me too. Listen to it, please. (laughs) – I’m sorry, that’s what App Podsific, we’re at Accurian Pacific everywhere online. The podcast itself has its own Instagram channel, App Podsific. I know where everywhere you can listen to podcasts, so check it out. – All right, so we talked a lot about podcasts, so your answer could relate back to podcasts, but one thing we like to ask everybody who joins this, our podcast is, it’s a tool that you can’t live without in your day to day life, so again, could be related to the podcast, maybe it’s your social media management, day to day work, what’s your savior tool? – Yeah, I feel like it’ll probably be the same for everybody, but our social media tool is Sprout Social, I love Sprout, I’m using that daily. We’re recently, I kind of touched on it early in this episode, but we are reusing a lot of old content as well, and so I’m using Repurpose for that, which has been really helpful. It’s a great way to just quickly upload old content across platforms, so between Sprout and Repurpose, those are kind of my saving graces lately, especially during a podcast season. – And just to be crystal clear, Sprout Social and Repurpose are two different platforms? Two different platforms, Sprout Social is our scheduling and reporting platform, and Repurpose is just literally a program that allows you to repurpose content across social media channels, and in a really easy way. It’s fantastic. – I feel like it’s a pretty good answer, Jenny. I like that answer, I know. – I was gonna say, I feel like we’ve gotta give a nod to something for a podcast too for a tool, so I’ll throw one out because since you guys said that you’re not doing full video yet, this platform we’re using Riverside is awesome because it has a little AI tool in it that’ll like snapshot things for you and give you a video and you can go back and edit yourself. So really give us some time-saving ways to get a podcast but also generate video is an awesome platform. – Yeah, we got it. We got to upgrade a video, that’s great. – All right, all right, here we go. The famous last question. I don’t know, I don’t know, Jenny, I don’t know if she can handle this one. Not on one. What do you think marketing teams at Cultural Tractions should be doing more or less of in terms of their marketing? – I think across the board, everybody needs to use the social media platforms that they’re creating for on a regular basis as a user. That’s really where we found the most success in spaces is targeting the content around the audience that you’re trying to reach on each platform and really tailoring it because the conversation is so different on every single space. So using the platform as a user yourself, getting into the conversations, realizing how people talk on this platform versus the other, how people create on this platform versus the other has been a great model of success for us. So I can’t recommend it enough. I really don’t think you can create for a space that you’re not a part of already. And so I always say, if you find out a new social media platform and making its rounds, of course, secure your handles, but use it like a user would and get to know the ins and outs of it, what do people like about it, what do people not like about it? What are features that are really easy for users to create content around? And then just dive in that way. I think the conversation around TikTok is always hard for institutions, especially now to hop on, but if you’re just using it as a user already, you know how to create for it. You can easily get in there and create and have a lot of success on that. So that’s always my number one advice is use it like a user. – Good stuff. Madeline Walden, she is a social media manager at the aquarium of the Pacific Madeline. Thank you so much for joining us. – Thank you for having me. It was wonderful. – Thank you for listening to the Marketing Attractions podcast. If you have a suggestion for a topic or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit our website at MarketingAttractionsPodcast.com. (upbeat music)