the marketing attractions podcast

Conversations on How Nonprofit Attractions Drive Attendance Through Marketing

Influencer Marketing as Paid Advertising

Jenny considers influencer marketing a ‘paid advertising’ tactic, not just a PR play. She argues that we need to look at influencer marketing the same way as we look at billboards, radio, or any other form of advertising. 

Influencer marketing as paid advertising means…

  1. We need to determine a budget and develop a strategic plan like we would with radio, TV, or any other ad investment. 
  2. We can proactively find influencers that align with the audiences we want to target. 
  3. Secure usage rights to use the influencer’s video content. 
  4. Run that content as paid ads on TikTok and Instagram. 
  5. Measure and report. 

Get our Free Guide to Nano Influencers for Nonprofit Attractions here. 


This podcast is produced by attend media.

attend helps nonprofit attractions drive visitation through paid media. Download our free guide to media planning for nonprofit attractions at our site – attend.media

Episode Transcript:

You’re listening to the Marketing Attractions podcast. Conversations on how nonprofit attractions are increasing attendance and sharing their missions through marketing. Your hosts are Ryan Dick and Jenny Williams of AttendMedia. Jenny, today’s topic, Influence for Marketing as Paid Advertising. All right, another episode on Influence for Marketing. Why are we talking about this as Paid Advertising? What are we talking about today? Yeah, I think we’ve talked a lot about Influence for Marketing, how to do it, right? We’ve got kind of a bootstrapping episode if you’re trying to do it yourself. We talk a little bit about how you can amplify it and pay ads. But I think today we really want to talk about kind of the transition of thinking about Influence for Marketing solely as PR and starting to think about Influence for Marketing as part of our Paid Advertising Plan. It deserves a spot on your ad plan. It’s incredibly powerful, a performance driven channel, and we want to ensure that it’s getting the attention that it deserves as a new channel. So let’s level set here. What exactly is your definition of Influence for Marketing with this Paid Advertising lens to it? Yeah, so Influence for Marketing as a whole is going to be an Influence or a Creator, maybe who has a following, a social media following on TikTok, on Instagram, other social channels as well too. But it’s someone who’s going to come and create user-generated content about your attraction and push it through their own channel to their followers, right? So it’s not to your followers, it’s not you repurposing their content, it is them creating it and running it through their channel. We think about it from a paid perspective though, this is where you’re going to repurpose the content because we’re going to take that content, negotiate things like usage rights and we’re going to push it into our ad channels. So we’re going to promote it on TikTok. We’re going to promote it on Instagram. And really this is the number one way, the top way that we can really start thinking about amplifying Influence or Marketing, right? Because it’s not always necessarily going in and getting more influencers to do more in Influence or Marketing, but it’s about how do we get more out of what we’re doing with influencers and really kind of this paid amplification than thinking of it as part of our paid advertising plan versus solar PR is a great way to do that. All right, so why more? You know, sell me again on what’s so great about Influence or Marketing. Yeah, I think first of all, it’s video content that lives in social media, right? So if you go back a few episodes or you can grab our guide from the website, we talk about impactful versus opportunistic media, impactful really kind of being those channels that can tell a story, right? Sure, our message and our opportunistic channels oftentimes tend to be a little bit lower funnel. And someone can actually like react to this, right? Go and buy a ticket or click on an ad. So paid social reliability is this ability to do both and it has the ability to do both because of this video aspect of it. So, you know, putting in or because Influence or Marketing content lives within paid social, we can help increase our exposure within these channels. It also works for a lot of different audiences, right? So we’re able to go out and target or find influencers that are moms. If that’s who we’re trying to grow or go after, we can find Hispanic or Black or young or Ben, right? We can find it like whoever we want we can find, right? And I think in some channels, it’s a little bit harder to do than it is with Influence or Marketing. But you can also support a lot of different initiatives. So sometimes we have as a cultural attraction, you might have, you know, one or two big kind of marquee events throughout the year that you’re going to produce video content for yourself, but you’re going to have a lot of other smaller events whether they’re just a couple weeks long, whether it’s one night a week during the summer, whether it’s a new event that you just don’t have past production for. And by the time you create new assets, your campaigns over with, right? So influencers provide attractions that opportunity to come in, visit the attraction, shoot video, turn it around within just a couple of days and post it online and then post it through their social channels. And it’s a way to get you really inexpensive video content to support your social media strategy. Yeah. And I always used this story, but I remember there was a garden you were working with and their children’s garden is kind of like tucked away in the back. So if you go for the first time, you might not even know it’s there. So we had a video created several different Influence grow out there like, hey, promote the children’s garden, the splash pad, the children’s area. And that initiative was all about just upselling memberships, you’re talking about using this type of ad format can be super creative. You’re not going to come up with a billboard or 30 second TV spot just talking about your splash pad, right? So this is kind of a little example of how flexible and how like how many point darts this type of creative can hit. There’s like no better content out there for a mom than seeing another mom talk about how long she was able to spend during the day at you know that children’s garden. Yeah. And the videos just are sitting on a bench. No. Well, you know, she could be, but the, no, the videos are chasing her child around, but like, you know, when you’ve got a young kids, like you turn a burn some energy and if we, you can spend two hours at that, that children’s garden and splash pad, then, then you’re ecstatic, right? And that’s oftentimes something that, you know, especially if you’re very event driven, nonprofit attraction, that you might not be putting a lot of ad dollars behind something like your children’s garden or even membership, like a lot of attractions that we talk with a work with don’t have like a ongoing kind of membership message in their ad strategy. And you can easily incorporate that even when you’re pushing events with influencer marketing. So there’s another reason. All right. Give me some more. Well, I mean, it reaches a younger audience, right? And it reaches a younger audience because of really the channels that it lives in, particularly TikTok in Instagram, of course. But you know, this is an area where we’re seeing, you know, are we like to say our ad dollars should, our portion of our ad dollars should be placed against first time visitors, of course. And oftentimes first time visitors mean younger visitors. So it’s content that resonates with a younger audience and channels that reach a younger audience. And if you’re looking at, you know, I hear a lot of people are a lot of attractions say like, a TV’s dead, we should just move all over TV to streaming, right? Like traditional TVs dead, move it to streaming. And I’m like, okay, no, move it to social and invulence or marketing. Like that’s where it needs to be going. If you’re really trying to say, Hey, let’s move it to a younger audience. And then lastly, you know, we’re seeing it’s consistently a top performing ad channel to sell tickets. And what we mean by that is when we promote this influencer content in our paid social strategy, that content, that creator content is outperforming the brand content almost every single time. And when you say brand content, what do you mean? So the content produced by the attraction itself, right? The very polished video. And this is, I would say, 99% of the time that I create our content outperforms it. And then quite frequently we see it outperforming an Instagram as well too. So it’s improving this influence or content is improving our performance in our paid social channels. So when we talk to attractions and we bring up the subject of influencer marketing, a very common feedback that we get is like, yeah, we love influencer marketing. We do it all the time and we kind of dig into that conversation. And we realize influencer marketing kind of lives within the PR section of that marketing department. Maybe you can kind of talk about that. Like, like, a lot of people already doing influencer marketing. Why do we need to do this paid advertising approach? Are we already doing it with PR? Mm hmm. Well, we’re talking about amplifying it, right? Like building on it, making it work harder for you, getting more out of it. And I think a lot of the times when we hear that it’s being done under PR, first of all, that’s great, right? Like most, most attractions that we do talk to to your point are doing, are working with creators and influencers and exchanging tickets. But I think what happens is they’re getting people are, these creators are coming out to the attractions are saying, hey, for ticket, I’d love to write some content about you and with, you know, not just require a few tickets for it, they give them the tickets, the influencer posts the content and then it’s done, right? And so it’s harder maybe for the PR team to measure. And again, the PR manager’s responsibility is not to then go running in an ad campaign, right? So it kind of just stops there sometimes. And so when we start actually looking at as part of our paid ad strategy, not only do we maybe have opportunities to go after new creators that we haven’t worked with yet, but now we can actually truly like build kind of this, like, a continuation of maybe where it’s ending currently with the PR team. So when we move influencer marketing over into paid advertising, like, how does that look different than maybe just solely as a PR function? You gave me a list of five things here. So I’m going to read them off and then you go for it. Number one is it’s a line item on your advertising plan. What do you mean there? Yeah, I mean, kind of obvious, right? But it sits on our ad plan just like every other channel, right? Radio has a budget, TV has a budget, social media has a budget, influencer marketing has a budget. We’re going to plan it. And then we’re going to go buy it and execute it later. But right now we’re building our plan out and we’re going to put a dollar amount behind supporting influencer marketing. Yeah, think of part of that becomes like it has to, you know, we got to think about it. We got to have a strategy. It’s not like we’re going to put a bunch of money on the on our plan for TV and they go, Oh, yeah, I don’t know TV. Whatever, like we actually have to sit there and think about how we’re going to wisely spend these dollars. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Who are we trying to reach with this? What kind of content are we trying to get out of it? What type of the vincere? We’re trying to use this for, right? We’re going to have a full strategy behind it. Okay. So number two, proactively sourcing influencers. Yeah. So we talked about how it happens with a lot of attractions now is influencers coming to you as the attraction and saying, Hey, we’ll, we’ll post some content about you in exchange for tickets. Right. So it’s a little bit more reactive to who’s actually reaching out to you. But when we think about us part of our paid, we want to be proactive. So we’re going to go out and find influencers that match the audiences we’re trying to grow. So one example of this is, you know, perhaps you’re in a, you know, as you’re building out your ad strategy, you are, you know, you’ve identified that maybe you’re really under into a thing with a Hispanic audience and you’re in a very heavily Hispanic market, right? So part of your strategy is probably going to be grow Hispanic visitors, right? If they’re not coming to our attraction, they’re not reaching out to us for tickets. So we’re really never going to get that audience if we’re just waiting for them to come to us and ask us for tickets so that they can create content for us, right? So when we start building out this ad plan, and proactively sourcing influencers, we’re going to proactively source them based off of this growth audience as we’re trying to reach. I know everyone has a plan in place to grow visitation from people who aren’t currently coming, right? So now if I’m in charge of that, that influence or marketing approach under page or my paid ad strategy, I’m going to go out and seek Hispanic influencers that can maybe deliver a message in Spanish or bilingual creative, right? And that can always be a challenge for attractions as a whole. So this actually becomes a really great channel to support that type of initiative because you might not have somebody who can create that kind of content internally for you. But I think that’s always a great example of just how we can be more proactive in who we’re trying to reach and maybe deliver something that we really can’t do as well in other channels. Yeah, I mean, we’ve looked at like radio, right? We have that growth audience of Hispanic say, okay, we got radio on our budget. Okay, let’s go maybe consider looking at some Spanish language radio stations, right? Or, you know, with television, outdoor, kind of all the same. But the same example with influencer marketing is like, okay, well, let’s go and look and try to find some Hispanic or Spanish speaking or bilingual creators to go and invite that audience into our attraction. I love it. Okay. Number three, securing usage rights. First of all, what is usage rights? So the usage rights gives us the ability to repurpose this content, right? And from an advertising perspective, it specifically means that we’re going to repurpose it in TikTok, in Instagram, with paid ads, right? So these are the ads that look like they’re coming from the influencers themselves or right? It’s like, mommy influencer and the zoo, right? They’re very organic in the, in the, or the contents for your organic rate. So has the ability to kind of bypass those natural ad blockers that a lot of audiences tend to have. And these usage rights are really kind of the top way that we’re going to amplify our influencer marketing. So this isn’t something that’s typically being done under the PR side. And this is something that we absolutely will do under the paid advertising side, right? Now it’s transitioning from just a ticket exchange to usage rights to amplify our content strategy in our paid social channels. And are we talking about like paying influencers? Is that a must-have? Can we just do ticket trade? Talk to that. Yeah, this could be a little bit of a combination. So in many cases, yes, you are going to pay the influencer. But you could still have some instances where you’re not, right? Especially if it’s a really small influencer, you might be fine on trade. A way I like to think about it is radio. So radio is always a great channel or there still is a great channel for having both a spot schedule that’s paid and then like a trade schedule added, you know, promotions and added value rate. So we evaluate that entire buy together. And we enter that we’re getting the value out of that schedule for the paid amount or the trade amount, right? So it could be like, hey, I’m going to, you know, give someone $200 value worth of tickets and drinks and parking and all of this. And based on their audience size, they don’t actually have to pay them any more money. Or it could be, I need to pay them, you know, $200 to get this, right? The value of the paid amount or the trade amount is going to match what you’re going to get from that influencer based up of their followers and kind of that expected those expected views and engagement as well too. So I think we’ve got to think about evaluating influencers based up of their followers and then negotiating with them a cost or trade package to get this type of content. But the big pieces were not just negotiating content. We’re negotiating the usage of that content. And I will say this is where people are going. This is oftentimes where influencers are going to push to get paid if they’re not getting paid by you now. And think about this again, back to traditional media with production. If you have some, like a voiceover talent, produce a radio spot for you, they want to know where you’re airing this is a airing in one market is a airing nationally because they’re going to charge your different rate for it. So think about usage rights in that way and with influencer content, right? I’ll create content for you for $200. But if you’re going to run in in your ad campaign for a month, I’m going to charge you $400, right? So there’s another level of payment that you’re going to have here. And that’s something that you’ve got to work through as you’re evaluating and negotiating these contracts with influencers. All right. Number four, managing ad campaigns on TikTok and Instagram. Once again, how does it look different from PR to paid advertising, managing campaigns on TikTok and Instagram? Right. So you’ve secured those usage rights. You’ve got this great content now. Now you’re going to feed your ad strategy or feed your ad content to help amplify those results from that influencer campaign. This is what’s really giving your campaign legs. You’re going to be able to drive more views this way, reach more people. It’s not only the people who are followers of that influencer, but now we can go target audiences that we want to come as well too and expose them to this type of content or this creator’s content. So you need to understand how to run a ad campaign within TikTok and Instagram, right? Usually these are 30 day usage rights that you’re negotiating. But if you’ve got a campaign, an influencer marketing campaign where you have various influencers launching at different times, your campaign, your ad campaign could run for three months, right? So I think this is kind of that big transition. Again, it doesn’t just stop with the ticket exchange and stop once the content is posted. Now we’ve given some, we’ve created some length of this campaign with these usage rights to really be able to get more out of what we’re doing aside from just content. And we’ve done a lot of content around this idea of nano influencers, some folks might be hung up and like, wow, I’ve got to get the biggest star in my community, the influencer with the most, the largest following 100, 200, 300, 300,000 followers are on TikTok or Instagram, whatever it may be. Your approach is, hey, let’s get the influencer that produces the right content that is part of the right community that we want to invite into our attraction. It really doesn’t matter about their follower size because we can use our paid advertising dollars to amplify that content beyond just that individual’s follower size. Yeah, this really opens up the door for who you can work with when you’re amplifying it because you might have a hard time saying I’m going to pay someone for content usage or pay someone to, you know, who just has a thousand followers, you know, to produce some content, but they might be one of the better content producers for you really. I mean, a perfect example of this. I was just pulling a report together. We worked with one influencer, had a thousand followers, just like, bear like, 995 followers on Instagram. We only ran at like a hundred dollars behind her content and paid ads in between the boosting and the content and then, you know, algorithms picking up because it worked so well, she drove over a hundred thousand views. That was more than like half of the, the other content creators, some of them with like 30,000 followers. So you just never know who’s going to take off for you and so I think just having that variety of content, the variety of influencers with that variety of content is, you know, I mean, we all know in an ad campaign, what do you want? You want a lot of different content to see what’s going to work best and then push more money towards that better performing unit. And we kind of want to treat the influencers that way too, right? Is there, you know, five or six that we can work with instead of just one so that we have some flexibility to really you know, allow our paid campaigns to work harder for us. All right. Number five on our list of moving influencer marketing from PR to paid advertising, not that we won’t do it on the PR side too, but moving it over to paid advertising. Number five, measure. Yeah, I mean, we’re spending real advertising dollars here, right? And if there’s dollars behind especially if it was in digital media, we expect to report, right? So sometimes when it’s ticket exchange, like it’s just not worth the headache to go and collect all those reports from various influencers, you might not be using a tool to be able to track that day to a totally get that. But when we’re looking at underpaid and we have a dollar amount behind it, we better have a report behind it as well too. So there’s a couple of things that we’re doing. We’re not only aggregating kind of the total views and engagement that they’re getting from their organic, they’re the organic content that’s posted on their channels, but because we’re now amplifying in our paid campaigns, we have a whole paid report that mirrors our branded reports in these paid channels too, right? So we’re seeing impressions and clicks, we’re seeing ticket sales for the clients that we can actually track ticket sales for. And this is really important because now we’re treating each one of those influencers like a different asset, right? So I can look at performance or I can optimize my campaign now based off of who’s working well, but I can also look at that to determine how I want to maybe negotiate with these influencers moving forward, right? Who do I, who sold the most tickets for me? Who do I want to work with next year? Maybe on a longer term basis because not only do we reach a new audience working with them, but we drove more tickets than anybody else or we drove it at a more efficient rate, right? It’s not, we all know it’s not all about the views. I mean, the views are great, but it’s what’s actually driving performance for us and running influencer marketing content as a part of your paid ad strategy is the best way, really, to be able to track performance for influencer marketing campaigns. You’re listening to the Marketing Attractions podcast. Conversations on how non-profit attractions are increasing attendance and sharing their mission through marketing. Your hosts are Ryan Dick and Jenny Williams of Attend Media. Attend media is a media planning and buying agency, specializing in zoos, aquariums, gardens and museums. For more information, please visit attend.media. Now back to Ryan and Jenny. All right, Jenny. All of this sounds great. My favorite thing to say on this was podcast. Let me put on my marketing director hat. This sounds like a lot of work. It is a lot of work. We talked about where it tends to end right now for many attractions with that ticket exchange and we’re talking about extending the life pass that, right? So plus being proactive, right? So if we’re just running down the list through the things we’re talking about, we’ve got to go out and source these influencers, right? So how do we find them? It’s not just playing on TikTok all night long and being like, oh, I like that content. I’ll reach out to them, right? We’re using search features within platforms or within secondary tools to do this research to find the right influencer. What’s we find then? We have to negotiate with them, right? Just like I got to negotiate a radio buy. Am I paying the right amount of money for this market? Am I paying the right amount of money for their follower size? So negotiations are huge. How much am I paying them for those usage rights? How many times are we going to work together? How many pieces of content are you going to give me? Right? Those are all pieces that are now coming into this negotiation. Then you’ve got to build a contract, right? So you need a contract for the right type of terms to ensure that you’re going to get what you’re paying for from these influencers. I need to provide them a brief, but I don’t want to give them too much information or direction, but I want to give them flexibility, right? What should be my manatories in this? What do I need to tell them to include as disclaimers? All of these pieces are extra pieces, right? That you have to get involved with once you start paying someone versus just a ticket exchange. Then once they post that content, you need to run the ads in a campaign, right? And you need to be prepared to hand hold every single one of these influencers to get what we call ad codes, right? So they need to give you an ad code so that you can set it up in your campaign to run these campaigns or run their creative in your campaigns. And sometimes they’ve never done that before. So you’ve got a whole, you’ve got to walk them through them there and what they expect to see, which is not what you see on your hand, right? So are these platforms change all the time? So making sure that you’ve got very specific directions and instructions for them for how they’re going to provide you with these ad codes so that you can get those usage rights and run it in your ad campaign. Then once you’re running the ad campaign, you need to know how to manage an ad campaign, right? You’ve got to be able to optimize this creative, just like you would optimize your branded creative or you’re actually optimizing this creative in addition to your brand creative, right? So who’s driving more tickets, who’s driving more traffic, right? Who, where am I trying to put my money to have the best overall campaign possible, the best overall performance possible. And you know, you’re measuring and reporting, right? So it’s not just what’s coming from your ad campaign, but you’ve got to pull in these reports. So you’ve either got a tool that you’re paying for to aggregate all of this or you’re going out individually and pulling all this data together to report back on both the organic content and the paid content from your campaign. So yeah, it’s definitely a lot of work. We do have some good news here. So you wrote a lengthy blog post, a guide to nano-influence for marketing for nonprofit attractions. That is on our website attend.diepedmedia. If this is something that you guys are looking to do internally. All right. So Jenny, what is a good test budget? Like, I’m on board. This sounds like a good idea. I love having the PR people do it, but okay, I’m going to take this on. It’s going to be on next year’s plan. We’ve done some TikTok in the past. It really didn’t work out. We’re going to go full throttle with this approach. What’s a good test budget? Like, what’s a minimum amount that I should be carving off for influencer marketing? You know, every media person hates answering this question. I mean, I would always say it’s dependent upon, of course, how many audiences you’re going after, how many campaigns you’re supporting, what market you’re in. But I think, like, in general, so if we go back to our guide, we have this listed out. But when we think about the audiences that were focused on, what we typically say is make sure that your, if you’re doing influencer, marketing, make sure that you’re going to work with at least two or three influencers per audience you’re trying to grow. Right? So if it’s moms with young kids, if it’s a Hispanic audience, if it’s Gen Z, right? Each one of those I want to ensure that I’m getting like two to three influencers with. I don’t want one in every single one, right? I want to build enough content to support this ad campaign to reach these audiences, right? So knowing that you’re going to want two to three, if you’ve just got one audience that you’re trying to place on your plan, you know, I think a starting budget can be around that, you know, $10,000 price range because roughly half of your budget you can assume is going to go towards influencers and the other half is going to go towards amplifying it or, you know, it could be a slightly different mix, depending on how small your influencers are, right? Maybe you have a little bit more supporting that paid amplification versus the influencers themselves based off of the size of the followers. But I think, you know, that’s probably a good way of thinking through like how much is it going to cost me to think about, you know, that kind of 10,000 per kind of audience that you’re going after. And the number of influencers you’re going to get from that, again, just depends on your strategy in terms of the size of the followers, but you should expect to get at least two to three out of that size budget. So yeah, I think that’s a good starting point. And then, you know, of course, double triple that based off of how many audiences you’re trying to go after. Yeah, well, okay, so like two to three influencers and I’m for $10,000 budget and you’re saying like half of my budget should be spent on influencers. So that’s like a, well, a bad math here, $1,500 per influencer. I’m thinking you can get some smaller ones, some of these nano influencers for a little bit cheaper, but their organic audience size or their followers are going to be a lot less. So I’m going to need more money in my ad budget in order to kind of get that impression level to make this move the needle for us. Is that the right way of thinking of this? Yeah. And don’t think you can’t get more than two to three of your whole strategies just going after nano. You might better get five, six, seven for that budget. So this is just a nice range of know, like I might have one nano, one mids here, one large, right? And then I’m going to have that ad support behind each, you know, that $10,000 budget will typically allow you to do some combination of that. All right. So what do we want people to do? What is everybody hidden stop right now? I’m going to go do. Yeah, well, I think, you know, give influencers are marketing the attention that it deserves now. I mean, we’re the end of 2024, right? You’re probably working on putting your 2025 plans together. And if you’re really looking at growing or, you know, excelling your influencer marketing strategy, then putting it on your paid media plan, putting in your putting in your paid advertising plan should be a focus. You know, we know that invoices are marketing within social media sales tickets. So we track ticket sales for our clients. And we see that influencer’s when we pay to promote their content, almost always performance better than brand new content and particularly in tent channels like TikTok. So, and this shouldn’t be surprising, right? We know user generated content. When someone else is talking more to mouth, right? Is as always going to be like your best performer. How many people are like, we don’t advertise it. We just need word of mouth. Well, you got to get people in the door to have word of mouth, right? So, you’ll go live read by the DJ on the radio station. There’s that two, four minute radio break, all those commercials. You tune that out. But my favorite sports and answers talking about XYZ, you just naturally listen to that. And kind of concept here. Exactly. Yeah. We, uh, this bypassing the natural ab blockers and all of us. And I’ll add this to the mix. You know, another reason to go jump, stop what you’re doing and go put 10 to 15,000 dollars of and influencer marketing on your paid advertising plant here. It’s, uh, I love what you’re saying about how this tactic really could mold into a lot of different strategies. Right? Your growth audiences can be reached generally because they’re going to be younger, can be reached with the advertising execution that you just taught the layout for everybody. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, you know, like we already said once, but it’s like it’s not just about moving, maybe your traditional media to the digital format of those, but taking anything that you’re cutting from there, if your goal is to go after a younger, more diverse audience, to placing it into these social channels with the right content for that ad strategy, which is influencer content, right? Like got to be willing to invest properly into these channels and not just say, uh, we don’t, we don’t have the right creative for that yet. So we’re just not going to do it, right? Like this is a pretty inexpensive way to get really great content that can really feature your paid ad performance. Oh my gosh. Let’s, let’s beat this to death. Okay. Think about your marketing plan, your meet your paid media plan. There’s got to be one channel on there that you’ve been thinking about, man, what is that really doing for me? Maybe that’s the budget you move over into your paid social section and earmark that specifically for influencer marketing. Now that you said that about moving the budget, I think one other way to think of it too, right? When we talk about this like 10 to 15 K maybe starter package for it is remember half of that is ad budget, right? Like roughly half of that is going to be ad budget. The issue here is what we, what we don’t want to do is just assume like, oh well, let’s just cut that in half and say we’re going to spend $7,500, our $5,000 on influencer marketing because we’ll get the rest out of our paid social budget and then it’s like, oops, we don’t have enough to support it. So bucket it together, but know that you can trim it from your paid social budget to support it because when we talk about influencer marketing as paid advertising, we’re talking about amplifying it in our paid social channels. So we can borrow a little bit from there. So you might not have to carve out that full 15,000. You’re just moving it from one line at a time to another to support the same channel and then feeding the content with influencer marketing ends and maybe you need to cut that one print ad that is standing off on its own that could go to influencer marketing. Jenny, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Marketing Attractions podcast. 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