the marketing attractions podcast

Conversations on How Nonprofit Attractions Drive Attendance Through Marketing

How Nonprofit Attractions Can Work With Social Media Influencers

We talk with Alyssa Fagien from ATL Bucket List to learn some best practices on how influencers want to work with non-profit attractions. We talk about what makes a good brief for a creator, sharing your attraction’s ‘hidden gems,’ and whitelisting creator content for ads.


This podcast is produced by attend media.

attend helps non-profit attractions drive visitation through paid media. Download our free guide to media planning for non-profit attractions at our site – attend.media

Episode Transcript:

You’re listening to the Marketing Attractions podcast. Conversations on how nonprofit attractions are increasing attendance and sharing their missions through marketing. Your hosts are Ryan Dick and Jenny Williams of Attend Media. Jenny today’s topic, how nonprofit attractions can work with social media influencers and we got a guest. Yeah, super excited about this one. We’ve got Alyssa Fagan from ATL bucket list. ATL bucket list has been around since 2015. Alyssa is kind of one of their original influencers on Instagram and has built a huge following over her her nine years in this space. She was voted in 2023 as the best food Instagrammer by Atlanta Magazine and their best of issues. So really well known in the market and I think has a lot of really great tips and tricks to share for working with graders. Yeah, she’s going to give us some ideas on like what’s in a good brief. What’s maybe not in a good brief. She talks about some of her experiences in working with attractions and she gives a couple ideas on how to make your content quote unquote go viral. Yeah, how to make it work for you. All right, let’s get into it. All right, with us is Alyssa Fagan from the ATL bucket list. Alyssa, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. And Jenny, you’ve worked with Alyssa in the past, right? Yeah, working with Atlanta influencers. One of the biggest is here with us today with Alyssa, but Alyssa, you’ve been doing this forever. Nine years, she started in In, round she gave us a little bit of background because that’s like an eternity in the in the influencer space and she changed a lot since you first started. Yes, I know it is a little bit wild because when I started in 2015, I didn’t even know the term influencer. I didn’t really know what I was doing to be honest. I just had moved to Atlanta a few months prior and really fell in love with the city and decided to document all the things I was doing on Instagram. Fast forward nine years and it is now my full-time career, which is just crazy to think and I feel incredibly lucky to do that. But yeah, it’s definitely been a journey. It was not seamless, it was not planned. Now there’s a lot more planning, data, strategy behind posting and partnerships and all of that. But in 2015, I kind of just went on Instagram and started posting some really bad iPhone photos. And it kind of took off. And I think a huge piece of what made ATL bucket list really successful was definitely timing. Think back to 2015, they’re really, I mean, especially in Atlanta and I would say, Atlanta and smaller cities, there weren’t a lot of people doing what I am not doing. I think today, there’s a ton of competition and there’s so many amazing creators. Back then, it was just a handful of us. So it was pretty cool kind of seeing how that growth just was exponential and just navigating an industry that really not a lot of people knew about. Yeah, so go ahead, Jenny. So 2015, you start, it’s 2024, how is your fall or your face changed since then? I think almost 400,000 followers on Instagram alone, right? What does that look like in terms of the size of your followers? Yeah, so I mean, obviously looking at like the nitty-gritty, there’s all the analytics on the back end. And I will say I think a huge piece of what has made ATL bucket list really successful is the fact that my largest audience is, you know, females between the ages of 25 and 34, which is me. So I think I’m really able to tap into the mindset of my perfect audience because I think about the things that are important to me, things that will resonate with me. And that is easy for me to do because I fit that demographic. But it certainly, you know, obviously started at zero, everybody starts at zero. So for, you know, anyone thinking about starting, you know, just got to do it. But it certainly has kind of ebbed and bloated. I mean, I think I saw a ton of growth at the beginning. And then as things changed on Instagram, you know, the launch of Instagram stories and then Instagram reels took everyone by surprise. Like when I started ATL bucket list in 2015, it was a photo sharing app with no other features. So I think that has been a big challenge, but also a huge opportunity in the growth of really all creators on Instagram is how can you best maximize those new pieces of the platform? And that’s certainly something that I feel I have really leaned into. I mean, I rarely do photo content. I’ll do it every once in a while, but I really lean into video, which I think gives a really big opportunity for influencers who are partnering with brands. Because instead of just, you know, posting one photo, you really get to tell a larger story. And I think that has shown to be more effective when trying to, you know, sell tickets to an experience or something like that because you really get to show off a glimpse into what you can expect when you attend yourself. Yeah, I love that. I mean, we talk to our clients all the time about it’s sharing that experience and someone else’s point of view too, right? Not just their own because someone else might like that that potential customer might not trust you as the advertiser quite as much because it’s the highlight reel, but it wants our creator sharing some of that. It’s especially someone that they followed for a long time and share a lot of the same kind of similarities and passions with they really trust that and believe in that. So it’s great to get this different point of views. And then also you have the ability to share kind of some of the bad, right? So maybe not in a negative lens, but more of, hey, maybe avoid these days or these times or you’re like, here’s the tips and tricks I’m going to give you so that you make this the best experience possible. For sure, which is something that you’re just not going to put in a TV spot, right? Definitely. And, you know, I think for, you know, the people who kind of struggle with what is influencer marketing, why is it something I should want to invest in, I think it’s really good to come back to the root of what it is. And that is word of mouth marketing. You know, like that has always been something that brands and businesses want to tap into is having other people talk about how amazing their brand is. And, you know, trusting your friend, having their recommendation means so much more than the brand’s recommendation. And that’s essentially what influencer marketing is. I mean, I’ve spent nine years building up this platform so that people trust me. They see me as a friend. They see me as someone who takes them to these amazing places. So I do think in a way, it’s just that next step of word of mouth marketing. Jenny, I like her. She’s great. All right, Les, so you kind of just went into it a little bit there, but, you know, what is that conversation look like with a potential advertiser? Let’s say I’m the marketing director at a zoo. I don’t know. I got Facebook that I check once a year to say happy birthday to my aunt. You know, I like what you said about the friend, the trust part, but are you selling tickets? How is this like moving the marketing needle for me? How would you answer a question like that? Yeah, I mean, I think there’s always a different level of understanding when I get inquiries about partnering. They’re the people who have done influencer marketing. They know what works. They are excited to partner. And then there are some people who are like, okay, I’ve seen you. I’ve heard about you. Somebody told me I might want to work with you, but like tell me a little bit more about what I can expect. So when I have a brand reach out to me, like I said, there’s usually a variety of understanding of what influencer marketing is, but I think the big thing is having those metrics to really back it up. I mean, I work with an agent. I know a lot of people don’t, but I think whether you’re doing it on your own or you have a team, I think it’s really, really important to prove your value. So look at your analytics. Look at your past posts. If you have examples of similar partnerships you’ve done in the past, it doesn’t have to be even the same industry or type of post, but if the goal is the same, trying to sell tickets or trying to get more awareness or whatever that is, if you can show I’ve done this in the past and here are the results, here’s what you can maybe expect. Of course, you know, you can’t expect Instagram to put out your content the same way every single time. But having those examples, having analytics, I think it’s really important and I think as an influencer, I appreciate when a brand asks me for that because it shows me that they care and they should be asking those questions. They shouldn’t just want to work with someone because they have, you know, 200,000 followers, they might have 200,000 fake followers or, you know, or just have really bad engagement. So I think it’s a smart decision for a brand to ask for those analytics and then we’re able to come up with goals that I think are realistic too. Then you and I can work together to make sure that we are doing, we’re, you know, putting together the best content, we are creating those results that you’re hoping to see so that as an agency, you can go to your client and say that it was a successful partnership. Yeah, I like that. And I mean, is there, I don’t know, like a bronze silver gold package? I mean, like, what do you, what do you do exactly? What, if I was a marketing director, what am I going to get? Yeah, so I mean, there are, I would say I typically will work with a brand on custom, you know, packages. At the very minimum, there’s going to be an Instagram post, usually an Instagram reel, which is the video form of that. But, you know, we’ll add on giveaways or we’ll add on Instagram stories to kind of supplement what we’re doing on a video. Sometimes we will take that same video or a version of the video and put it on TikTok or Facebook. So there are a lot of different things we can do. And then, you know, getting into white labeling content, you know, having brands use the content, advertise the content, you know, that’s something also to keep in mind, working with an influencer isn’t just having them post on that their platform. You can then work with them to keep that content for yourself and have that be an extra piece of your own content mix or add it to your paid advertising strategy. So all of that kind of comes together to create the package that I then, you know, sign into a contract with a brand. Very cool. Yeah, and I think that’s such a good example because there’s probably a mentality from several of just that one and done, right? And then it’s like, what did I get versus when you’re working with someone a little bit more long-term, it’s going to get, you know, two or three posts. I’m going to get an end two or three channels. I’m going to get to utilize it in my paid ad programs. I’m going to, you know, you just kind of all builds in you develop a stronger relationship. They are getting a lot more out of that versus just one post that’s in or, you know, one video in, you know, one spot. And I think that’s, that’s how brands, advertisers have to think about influencer marketing is more like the long play of it versus just one time, one person, and then then scratching their heads saying like, what did it do for me? Because it’s a little, it’s not that it didn’t do anything. It’s just that it might be a little bit harder to measure or gauge performance compared to everything else that you’re running when you’re only doing you know, one quick post like that. So, I would either, or like, it’s temples and I got a hard question for, for Alyssa, um, I’m putting you on the spot a little bit here. All right, so I’m, I’m putting my marketing director hat back on, you know, some things that I hear is, hey, where is you? We’re in aquarium. We’re a fun place. People are already coming to my attraction and creating content. You know, you talked about being able to whitelist and bringing the content that you would create into the attractions ad portfolio, which I think is brilliant, but is there any kind of other benefits and working with someone like you? Like, maybe you can speak to your organic audience. Like, once again, people are already coming to the already sharing videos, check the box. I don’t need to invest time and resources into this. What would you say to that? Yeah, well, I would say a few things. One, I think there’s never too much conversation about a brand. You know, I think, yes, it’s great that you’re getting this organic content. People are coming in and creating content on their own, but working with an influencer is just another piece. It’s more people talking about it. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Now, second, I also think you’re able to kind of help shape the narrative a little bit more when you partner with an influencer. Obviously, you want them to be authentic. Obviously, you want them to share their true experience. But I know from my experience when I work with brands, especially when I work with brands that really get it, or we have really great conversations, I will learn things from working with that brand about that attraction that I would have never known if I just walked in the door. So, you know, there are certain things that I feel like because we’ve had calls ahead of time, there’s a creator brief. There are certain things that they know are not really widely known when people just walk in the door. Then you’re able to really share that message through working with that influencer. I mean, I even yesterday I went to the Atlanta History Center and I found out that they have like a petting zoo. And you know, it was like I never even knew that existed. And I think that those types of things are one potentially going to get more people in the door. And two, as the creator, that’s really cool to me to be like, hey, of course, you’re part of the aquarium or the zoo or the botanical garden. But did you know this? And I think those are the types of stories that people get really excited about because it’s like, oh, yeah, I’ve been here a million times. Sure, cool. But did you know about this? And more times than not, they have it. And it’s a reason to get people back in the door. Absolutely. Yep. And Jenny, I know you and I we talk about this quite a bit, but sometimes showing the bad. And I’m using air quotes here, but maybe parking is really, really tough on the busy, busy busy weekends or the busy nights. Maybe that’s an area where we can have some more influencer content to kind of overcome some of the challenges that are inherent with with particular attraction. You’re not going to put that on the TV. I love you. Yeah, or just highlighting the different experiences like you said, Alyssa, so it’s not always just a general admission. There’s, you know, if you think of the zoos and aquariums, there’s all kinds of like VIP or behind the scenes stores and stuff that maybe you’re not going to you’re not going to think of prior to that visit. And then you’re not going to schedule it into your day, right? You can’t always do everything once you get there. Some of it has to be pre-planned. So just making sure that all of this little additional activities, you know, or special events or exhibits are all promoted really through that content, so that people can learn about it. Oh, Alyssa’s content looks great. You know, it’s not, you know, some guy with an iPhone, I mean, her stuff is awesome. So all I have that to you get after I use the app. Thank you. Well, and I think another thing too is when I work with brands, they have the final say, you know, I’m not just going there creating content and posting it. There’s an approval process. We do back and forth edit, and we can really make sure that it’s telling the story that the brand wants to tell. Again, while keeping it authentic, but they do have say in what is going out to the masses. You’re listening to the Marketing Attractions podcast. Conversations on how non-profit attractions are increasing attendance and sharing their mission through marketing. Your hosts are Ryan Dick and Jenny Williams of attend media. Attend media is a media planning and buying agency, specializing in zoos, aquariums, gardens and museums. For more information, please visit attend.media. Now back to Ryan and Jenny. So let’s talk about that process a little bit. Like, can you give us an example of what type of things would be in a good brief and maybe what’s in a bad brief? Yeah. I think at the core of it, my favorite briefs are one that have like a ton of useful information. Like I had mentioned before, you know, even just like a summary on the business, the brand, but then also like what are some like hidden gem things that would be really cool to highlight in your content? Those types of things are great for me to know going into it so that I can really plan ahead and make sure that I am taking the time to seek those out and get the content. But I think also the key here is giving all this information, but allowing the creator to have a little bit of free reign. I think in my experience, the worst partnerships I’ve had are when the brand is just a little bit too rigid where they’re like, I want it to look like this, feel like this, sound like this, like get these exact clips, say these exact things. When it may not really be my style, it may not be what my audience wants to see. And then the video flops because they were so strict on what they were expecting. I think it’s really important to remember that, you know, but a lot of us have been doing this long time. I’ve been doing it for nine years. I know what my audience likes and I know what they don’t really care about. So let me lean into the things that I know are going to really get them to care, not focus on the things that are just not that important to them. Even if that’s, you know, part of your goal, you know, let’s find a happy medium where we’re still getting your message across while doing it in a way that I know will be effective for my audience. So going back to the brief, I think as much information as possible, but then let’s work together to figure out in that information, what are the key points that we really want to hone in on that you feel is really important and I feel it’s going to really make a mark on, you know, what my audience cares about. Yeah, okay, so it’s not a video shoot, right? It’s not you stand here, you say this line. And let the creators personality, and I like what you said about this is what my audience is going to care about. So it’s more like a creative partnership, right? Definitely. Yeah, I mean most of the briefs I look at are, you know, pretty simple. It’s, you know, a summary about what we’re trying to achieve here. Maybe some key talking points, but again, like vague, maybe bullet points and messages that you want to get across, but allowing me to do it in the way that I see fit, calling out a couple of things that might be good content. I appreciate always the, you know, direction and the feedback and suggestions. I just, I prefer when there’s suggestions, not mandatory. And then obviously going through the exact scope. So, you know, we agreed to do this many posts or stories or, you know, what else you can expect. Just so I, you know, while I’m creating that content, have it in fresh in my mind, okay, not only do I just need to create a reel, but I also have the story frames, and we’re going to have to repurpose it for TikTok. So maybe, you know, keeping that in mind. So whatever that is having that on there, but again, I don’t think it needs to be some crazy big document. I think as long as we’re hitting those key points, I feel really good going into a shoot. Do you have, I mean, this might be sharing the playbooks, whatever you feel comfortable with, but is there kind of like a formula or some, some ingredients that typically make a quote-unquote good video, something that has the potential to go, you know, viral kind of take off? Is there kind of some, some things you can share? Uh-oh. No, no, no, it’s not, it’s honestly, it’s not even like, I don’t want to share my secrets. It’s more of like, I will say, sometimes I am so confident that a video is going to be the best performing video of my life, and then it will flop, and vice versa. Sometimes I’m like, “Ugh, I don’t know about this,” and then it does amazing. You know, as a creator and, you know, as brands, I’m sure it’s sometimes frustrating because we don’t have full control over how a post performs. The algorithms are always changing, and, you know, they’re telling us to do this and that, and I just saw a video the other day, and now they’re like, you know, here are what you should do, like all the steps you should take to make a video that’s going to perform the best, and it’s like completely different information than they gave us a year ago. And, you know, it’s hard to keep up sometimes, but I do think the key is one understanding that people do not have really, you know, they have short attention spans. You know, that is the nature of the audience today. So, when I work with brands, I do try to really manage expectations and keeping the video short. I want to get the messes across. I don’t want it to be, you know, a six second video, but I also don’t really want to do, like, a minute long video. So, I think timing is a big thing. I think also a hook at the beginning. Not trying to be like, you know, scammy or anything like that, but, you know, really getting your message across in that first few seconds, whether it’s having some text at the beginning, or the first words out of my mouth if I’m doing a voiceover, or a really cool visual being the first frame of the video, I think that’s really important in being like, this is why you should stop scrolling and care about what I’m about to say. I think if you have a good hook, then you’re more likely to have people stay for the entire video, or at least most of it. So, that’s always really important to me. I try to think what else. I mean, and then I think like good visuals. That’s why I love having conversations with the brand ahead of time and finding out, you know, I hate to say it, but like, what are like the Instagram worthy shots? You know, what are the things that are going to really catch someone’s eye? Because they’re scrolling, they’re, you know, not always going to stop and watch a video. So, what is going to help me grab their attention? And then we can still get all the messages across in a voiceover or still add some clips in and maybe aren’t the, you know, most engaging clips, but I think being able to weave those in is really key. We’re recording this in May of 2024, Jenny. Um, Tik Tok, is that a thing still? Well, I think maybe first, um, it’s in, yeah, in April, 2024 and we know that there’s a lot of changes that could potentially happen with Tik Tok. It’s all still, guess is in terms of what will happen. So, we won’t try to debate that, but it just talked to us a little bit about, as Tik Tok is really, I think, probably over the last year, you know, year or so, really become important for a lot of creators. Like, how is it different? Maybe the Instagram for you and how’s it helped grow your audience and how important the channel is to you? Yeah, it’s crazy that it’s such a different audience. That was the first thing that I learned. Um, I started posting on Tik Tok a couple of years ago, and I remember the first thing I did was like, Oh, wow, I have this big audience on Instagram. I’m just going to post on a story and be like, follow me on Tik Tok. That did nothing for me because most of my Instagram audience is not really the same Tik Tok audience. My Instagram audience, I will say, mostly over the age of 25. I had mentioned earlier, 25 to 34 is my biggest age range, but then it gets older before it gets younger. So, a lot of the people who have been my loyal followers on Instagram for years don’t really care about Tik Tok. They’re staying on that platform. Now, I find on Tik Tok, now that I do have an audience there, it’s usually a much younger demographic. And I even remember one time, I don’t even know how this came up, but I was out and I met this group of, like, you know, 20-year-old people and they’re like, oh, we don’t even go on Instagram. Like, like, Instagram. And it was just crazy to me because I spend so much time on Instagram, but they really just use Tik Tok. So, I think it’s really important to know that it’s such a different audience and not to say, you know, I’m on Tik Tok too. So, there are older people on Tik Tok as well, but I don’t think your audience on one depth, like, will translate to an audience on another, necessarily. So, I think that’s one thing, but I also think that, you know, one, I also, I feel for the people who have built their entire business on having, you know, a huge platform on Tik Tok. I’m sure this is a very nerve-wrecking time. We just, we don’t know what’s going to happen. Luckily, I don’t think anything’s going to happen soon, but I think it’s a good time to maybe think about diversifying. I think a lot of the people who do have large volumes on Tik Tok have been able to over the years build a large, maybe not as large, but large, following on Instagram too. But I think the biggest takeaway is that it is so important to diversify your platforms. I know for me, even, you know, Tik Tok is definitely my secondary Instagram is my primary, but one of my big goals in last year was building an email newsletter list, because I was just like, we don’t know what’s going to happen to any of these, like especially now we’re seeing with Tik Tok. I mean, I don’t necessarily think Meta is going away, but, you know, it’s, you never know what the next platform is going to be. You also, like I mentioned earlier, don’t always have the ability to control how well content performs and all of that. And of course, that’s true with any platform, but I think it’s just really wise to think about where can you build an audience that is a little bit more controlled by yourself. And that’s kind of why I leaned into email a little bit more last year. I will say, I haven’t done too much with it this year. It’s been a busy start to be year, but, you know, I think it’s really important to just think about not putting all your eggs in one basket because these are all, I guess, like borrowed channels, you know, if it’s Meta or if it’s Tik Tok or, you know, I think there’ve been, you know, buying that came and went. There was something that everyone was, like, really into called lemonade for like a couple months and then it never turned into anything. So I think just the key is like, again, not just, especially if it’s your career or you’re a brand and you’re like, okay, I’m using social media to get my message out. You really do need to do a little bit of a few things, not a little bit of everything. Nobody can do a little bit of everything, but really like focus on a couple. And yeah. Yeah, no, that’s so so important, I think, as, probably every marker is like, yeah, that’s like, my pain point is that I’m having to do so many different channels that it is really important, especially those own channels as well, too, like you mentioned. I think it’s super interesting what you said, just the difference in the audience. I think most people would just assume, like you mentioned, that your Instagram followers are your TikTok followers and it’s not just like a 100% duplication between the two channels, right? It’s a very unique audience that you’re getting anything because you think through what happens with something like threads or what happens with, you know, YouTube shorts, like those audiences are going to be different, too. You’re going to have overlap in some of them, of course, but the audience is very different. So, you know, working across at least two or three platforms can ensure that you’re growing and scaling a unique audience, not just serving that same content, the same audience, and three different channels. So yeah, especially when I’m working with brands and, you know, a lot of times I will take a video that I’m putting on Instagram and then post it also to TikTok. And I think the fact that my audiences are so different is a win because again, you’re not just reaching the same people that saw it on Instagram, but on TikTok. No, it’s a completely different audience. So I feel like that makes it a little bit more beneficial to a brand because they know that they’ve now hit two separate audiences. Yeah, now that’s a great point. Well, just in case there’s somebody a brand in Atlanta that hasn’t heard of ATL bucket list, Alyssa, how can people get in touch with you? I mean, best way is either email Alyssa@atlbuckettlist.com or shooting me a DM, find me on Instagram, send me a message, and I will try to get back to you as soon as possible. I love what I do and I love working with brands. So it’s been a lot of fun. The past nine years. Thank you so much for the time, Alyssa. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Marketing Attractions podcast. If you have a suggestion for a topic or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit our website at MarketingAttractionsPodcast.com.